Can a religious person be a true patriot or citizen in a secular nation given that they may put religion first

I asked a question earlier about whether religous people would prioritize the interests of church or state more highly in a situation where a conflict of interests arose, and the response was that in such a situation religion would win. So can these people, who have an alternative agenda be trusted to act as true citizens or patriots?Can a religious person be a true patriot or citizen in a secular nation given that they may put religion first
Yes, a religious person can be a true patriot or citizen in a secular nation. Not all religions believe in forcing others to follow their beliefs. Some religions do not have tenets that would cause a conflict of interests.





Even religious people who follow a religion that promotes forcing others to follow their beliefs COULD be a good leader and not follow those tenets of their religion. That would need to be judged on an individual basis.Can a religious person be a true patriot or citizen in a secular nation given that they may put religion first
Who defines what acting like a patriot is? A religious person would probably tell you that their religion is a guide to what is right. Doing what is right sounds patriotic to me.





Can you provide an example of a ';conflict of interest';?





My guess is that any example you provide would have multiple interpretations regarding what is most patriotic or what is in the country's best interest. And this would happen just as much with a group of athiests as with a group of ministers or priests.





I can't speak for any religion but my own, but the religion that I know is not competing for power with states. It's interest is in salvation beyond this world, not gaining power and influence within it. I simply don't see the conflict you are refering to.
no.
Religious people follow their doctrines according to their religion. Every individual religion has their right to practice their doctrine in America whether agreeable or not to the population.


Example: KKK practice their religion to HATE everybody that is not white.


I can honestly tell you that those people that have an alternative agenda can not be trusted to act as true citizens or patriots.


Islamic radicals have proven that theory and so did the Oklahoma boomers.


Religion is not always represented by its true meaning because to many people use religion as their front to disguise their true agenda (HATE).


Religion has nothing to do with being a true citizen or a good patriot to your country or the world.


A true citizen or patriot comes from the heart and soul not from religion.


A true citizen or patriot no matter what country you live in works to better their country men towards peace and prosperity regardless of their differences.


PLEASE DON'T BLAME RELIGION FOR THE TROUBLES OF THE WORLD.


Blame the INDIVIDUALS that practice HATE and all the INIQUITIES in the world.


Remember that not all people are religious with a ';RELIGION';, but religious in the HOLY SPIRIT AND THE HOLY SCRIPTURES (The Holy Bible).





GOD BLESS! AMEN! SHALOM!
Given the corruption of church authority and the problems inherent in religious canonical law, I prefer a secular democracy without religious law or an official religion.
Well geez...Google Sergent York.
If I died in Iraq while serving my country as a medic, does that mean I was more secular than religous? I placed my country, the US before my God?
Bro no religion stops a person from being a patriot or a citizen .. well religion just gives the guidance to live the way of life. In this world thats it.. ASAP
We don't see anything Biblically that suggests


soldiers or Centurions, after their conversion, kept


to their older ways. In fact, if we look at history,


we see the opposite:





';A careful review of all the information


available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus


Aurelius [Roman emperor from 161 to 180 C.E.], no


Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after


becoming a Christian, remained in military service.';


-The Rise of Christianity(London, 1947), E. W. Barnes,


p. 333.





';We who were filled with war, and mutual


slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the


whole earth changed our warlike weapons,-our swords


into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of


tillage,-and we cultivate piety, righteousness,


philanthropy, faith, and hope, which we have from the


Father Himself through Him who was crucified.';-Justin


Martyrin ';Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew'; (2nd century


C.E.), The Ante-NiceneFathers (Grand Rapids, Mich.;


reprint of 1885Edinburgh edition), edited by A.


Roberts and J. Donaldson, Vol. I, p. 254.





';They refused to take any active part in the civil


administration or the military defence of the


empire. . . . it was impossible that the Christians,


without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume


the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of


princes.';-History ofChristianity (New York, 1891),


Edward Gibbon, pp. 162, 163.





Why is this? ';They are not of the world even as I


[Jesus] am not of the world. ';John 17:16


';Jesus therefore perceiving that they were about to


come and take him by force, to make him king, withdrew


again into the mountain himself alone.'; John 6:15


Later, he told the Roman governor:


';Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if


my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants


fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but


now is my kingdom not from hence.'; John 18:36


But why? Matthew 4: 8 and 9 shows Satan trying to


tempt Jesus, ';Again, the Devil took him along to an


unusually high mountain, and showed him all the


kingdoms of the world and their glory, and he said to


him: ';All these things I will give you if you fall


down and do an act of worship to me.';


Think about it! How could the devil offer


Jesus the kingdoms of the world, if they were not in


his control already? That is why 1John5:19 says, ';the


whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.';





Satan is also called ';the ruler of this world'; and


';the god of this world'; (John 14:30; 2Cor 4:4).


Jas. 4:4: ';Adulteresses, do you not know that the


friendship with the world is enmity with God?


Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world


is constituting himself an enemy with God.';





And finally,


The Christian Century: ';The earliest Christians did


not serve in the armed forces. Roland Bainton notes


that 'from the end of the New Testament period to the


decade A.D. 170-180 there is no evidence whatever of


Christians in the army.' . . . Only gradually did


Christians abandon their opposition to military


service . . . Once Augustine endorsed 'just war' as


authorizing Christians' participation in military


activities, 'just war' soon became whatever war their


government engaged in.';


The article then exposes the real issue for


Christians: ';Can anyone seriously conceive of Jesus


hurling hand grenades at his enemies, using a machine


gun, manipulating a flamethrower, dropping nuclear


bombs or launching an ICBM which would kill or cripple


thousands of mothers and children? . . . If Jesus


could not do this and be true to his character, then


how can we do it and be true to him?';


';Augustine's 'just war' perversion of Christianity


on this critical issue was the greatest calamity that


ever befell the faith. It has cost Christians endless


opportunities to witness for their central ethical


principle: love your enemies and do good to them who


despitefully use you. It may have done as much to


hamper Christian evangelism as anything that has ever


occurred.';





Christians SHOULD be no part of worldly politics, having nothing to do with it's conflicts and hostility. A christians loyalty should be to God's kingdom with his son as reigning king.
I do not believe that any one who puts their interests first be they religious, political or financial can be a true patriot. That is why I do not consider Bush a patriot as he puts all three ahead of the interest of the USA.
Yes since I am both.
I think that when you get into politics and put religious label on yourself, you have many candidates that say they are part of a religion but then don't incorpate it into their political affairs. They seek after there own philosophy.
Simplifying this I will let you know that if, for example ALL CHTISTIANS, were to be TRUE CHRISTIANS and follow JESUS teachings to the dot, then no single one of them would be involved in politics in the first place!!!! This not only goes for all ';government'; officials, political candidates, etc., but the public itself. Why?





Because Christians are to believe that Jesus Christ's government, ruling, or whatever it is called, it is definetely not from, about, or of this WORLD. He himself explained this repeatedly.





Now, since Christians just like all religious groups, use RELIGION as they see fit, well then all of Jesus teaching have to go somewhere where they don't bother too much, and then his followers can do whatever they want!!!!





There are those that indeed wait for his return, go to Church, do good deeds, try not to sin too much, etc. But in the greater part most Christians just live it up in the world just like any other group. So you don't need to fear any ';UNPATRIOTIC'; anything from them. Same for other religions.





MUSLIMS? Well I tend to think most Muslims are not American born, so we can't expect them to be more patriotic than those that are. And of course, if they hear their ';calling';_such as was the case w/ many Bin Laden followers, they will FOLLOW their roots, tradition, instinct, or whatever you call it.





It is not RELIGION that comes first, it is whatever group of individuals see fit!!!!
Nah, religious wackos will always put the ultimate goal of their religion first and that is of course, world domination.
Jesus Christ himself said that his kingdom is ';No part of this world.'- John 18:36. Also, he said that his followers should also be no part of this world- John 17:16. Therefore, Christians should have nothing to do with politics,they should be politically neutral. They know that only God's kingdom, with Christ as king, will be the answer to mankinds problems. Jesus taught his followers to pray for this kingdom in Matthew 6:9 %26amp;10. The Bible say's that God's kingdom will 'crush' and put an end to all of mankinds kingdoms/governments - Daniel 2:44.
My deities require that we give honor to our families, our deities, our community. We have a responsibility to all of those and not in that order.





I am a United States Marine Corps veteran. I joined when I was a Christian. I wasn't sure if i could take a human life if war broke out but knew going in that it might come to that and accepted it.





Now, as a heathen, I wouldn't want to kill but not because I have a religious conflict against serving my country or killing in war or self defense.





I know a number of heathens, pagans and Wiccans that do what they feel is good service to the country, cities and mankind - some trying to stop the war, some working with veterans, some doing prison outreach, some working in soup kitchens.





I know some pagans and Wiccans would refuse to fight in the current war, some are already serving. I think it depends on the person and how they view their religion.





I'm not sure I'd know of a situation where a conflict between my religion and my nation would arise, I think they go hand-in-hand.
Secular nations do not exist, and any nation that claims to be a perfect secular nation is delusional.





Religion is so wound up into society and government already that it really doesn't matter anymore.
*** re chap. 28 pp. 191-192 par. 20 Contending With Two Ferocious Beasts ***





Putting love of country ahead of love of God is not what true Christian do.. Most people love the land of their birth. As good citizens, true Christians also respect the rulers and the emblems of the country where they reside, obey the laws, and make a positive contribution to the welfare of their community and their neighbors. (Romans 13:1-7; 1 Peter 2:13-17) They cannot, however, give blind devotion to one country as against all others. “Our country, right or wrong” is not a Christian teaching. So Christians who worship Jehovah God cannot share in giving prideful patriotic worship to any part of the wild beast, for this would amount to worshiping the dragon (Satan)—the source of authority of the beast(Earthly kingdoms in power-including United states and UK as the world power. They cannot ask admiringly: “Who is like the wild beast?” Rather, they follow the example of Michael—his name meaning “Who Is Like God?”—as they uphold Jehovah’s universal sovereignty. At God’s appointed time, this Michael, Christ Jesus, will do battle with the wild beast and conquer it, even as he triumphed in expelling Satan from heaven.—Revelation 12:7-9; 19:11, 19-21.





So this being said, true Christians give respect and pay what they are ask of them and follow the laws of the land except when it interferes with Gods Laws. True Christian are neutral to world politics. They will not take arms against anyone. You cannot love mankind and kill them.
depends on the reiligon...





its quite clear christians can do this and consider


it a christian duty to serve a gov't in whatever


form it exsists...





its quite clear that judaism can do the same thing...





its not clear however that islam can do the same thing


as islamic laws definitly overrule secular laws when


muslims are in he majority...
George Washington, our first president in America, the president of the convention that gave us the Constitution, and the president who oversaw the formation of the First Amendment, once declared, “It is impossible to govern the world without God and the Bible. Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great Pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and citizens…”
I would not even trust such people as babysitters, never mind as patriots.
dont have to look very far to find that the greatest ';polititions'; were also great relgious leaders... look at your money and you will find their picture, read the back and you will find thier open faith.. I dont think they are opposites, I think they empower the other.
Patriot? NO. Citizen? Yes.





True Christians are to obey Jesus in everything. The world is fond of it's own. We are no part of the world just as he is no part of the world. (John 15:19; 17:16) Indeed, Jesus reasoned if his Kingdom were part of this world, his attendants would have fought for him when he was arrested. His Kingdom is no part of this world. (john 18:36)





So while we give Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God, we obey world government's laws as long as they do not conflict with God's laws.